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DG095: The Liver from the Perspective of Traditional Chinese Medicine - Interview with Daniela Pfeifer

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In this episode, I talk to dietician and TCM therapist and dietician Daniela Pfeifer about the liver, which in traditional Chinese medicine is not considered in isolation, as in Western medicine, but is part of a functional circuit through which it is integrated into a variety of bodily functions.

Among other things, we talk about
  • How TCM classifies the liver
  • How liver and intestinal health are connected
  • What symptoms an ailing liver can cause
  • What the liver likes
  • Why cooking is important for the liver



The liver as part of a functional circuit



My first question to Daniela is why the liver is so important.

Daniela explains that in Western medicine the liver is seen as an isolated organ, whereas in TCM - like everything else - it is part of a functional circuit. You have to imagine it like a cake in which the liver is just one slice. When she, as a TCMdietician, talks about"liver", she means the entire functional circuit. According to TCM, there is much more to it than in the view of Western medicine, although she alsoknows that the liver has many functions, many of which are not yet known.
TCM describes the liver as the"general" of all functional circuits. The liver distributes energy - in the form of nutrients - to all organs.Liver problems are often diagnosed late. Typical symptoms are tiredness and exhaustion, but most people don't go to the doctor straight away. TCMsays:"Fatigue is the pain of theliver" - Of course, only unjustified tiredness. In the case of a young mother who gets little sleep, the reason is known. If you are still tired without any particular stress and with a good night's sleep, then you should think about your liver.

I'm interested to know what Daniela thinks about the connection between the gut and the liver.

Daniela says that the two work closely together. Both are detoxification organs and if both are impaired, the body cannot be healthy and will develop energy problems. 70 to 80 percent of our energy comes from food, the rest from breathing. If the intestine cannot absorb, the energy cannot be passed on to the liver.
She points out that the intestine is part of the body's surface. What reaches the intestine does not necessarily reach the bloodstream.If the intestinal flora is damaged and the intestinal mucosa is attacked, and if enzymes are missing, then the liver has nothing to distribute.

I agree with Daniela. I also always say that the gut is the contact to the outside world.ssworld. A gut-friendly diet is also liver-friendly.


How do you know if the liver is suffering?


I am interested to know what other symptoms might indicate that the liver is not doing so well.

The first thing Daniela lists is gynecological problems: Fertility problems, polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS), fibroids, PMS, menstrual disorders - from missed periods to clumping to heavy bleeding - can all be traced back to the liver. One of the liver's tasks as an energy store is to distribute blood. If it has no blood available, it stops menstruation. Too much heat leads to clots. PMS is a typical liver symptom with a disturbance of the Qi. According to Daniela, a liver-friendly diet can bring about improvement within two to three cycles.
Another symptom is migraine. 80 percent of all migraines are related to the liver, with migraine indicating stagnation.A dull feeling in the stomach and slight nausea - especially when you are angry-are also liver-related symptoms.Eye problems and visual disturbances - especially night blindness andmouches volantes - are also liver-related symptoms. The same applies to burning, dryness or constant watering of the eyes. TCMsays: "The liver opens in the eyes".


The triplewarmer of TCM


It is often said thatit would be better to first the livertofirst, instead of rehabilitating the intestines. I ask Daniela whether this is true or whether it could be done in parallel.in parallel.

In Daniela's opinionyou have to you even have to do it in parallel. Shestudied TCM to get away from the standard plans. She was initially adietician and had a standard plan for losing weight, one for diabetics and so on. The plan was the same for men and women. This never made sense to Daniela, as everyone needs to be looked at individually, and this is what TCM offers.However, she found that there are standard problems among Western people: Women often eat too much salad and not enoughprotein, which results in liver-blood deficiency. In men, typical complaints are heat, high blood pressure, fatty liver and pre-diabetes.
It always starts with building up heat first. In China, you don't have to do this because the triplewarmer - thepreventative measurepar excellence - is taught froman early age.Daniela's clients often get in touch and report that their usual spring fatigue or hay fever has disappeared.Spring is"liver time". Asparagus, green leafy vegetables, chard andnettles are now available. Thetriple warmer is now working. Now the nutrients go exactly where they are supposed to go and do what they are supposed to do.

I think you should first build up the core and then give the liver additional support.

Daniela agrees. The center concerns the gut. The TCM triplewarmer is divided intouro-genital(bottom), gastrointestinal tract (middle) and lung-heart-breath-energy (top). The middle is the intestine and if it is not well, the nutrients are not available.Raw food simply doesn't get through. TCM uses cooked food. Although cooked food contains fewer vitamins than raw food, it is better digestible and can be absorbed. Raw food puts a strain on the intestines. A few vitamins are still better than none at all.


Nutrition according to TCM does not have to be complicated


Of course, I have also studied TCM from time to time. It always sounded very complicated, containing lots of cereal porridge etc. Daniela is not so conventional and I ask how TCM nutrition can be made simpler.

Daniela says any diet can be complicated if you insist on it - whether that's alowcarb, ketogenic or TCM diet. Daniela wants her clients to see results as soon as possible, so she makes it as simple as possible. The TCM diet doesn't have to be complicated. Everything is eaten - in China even things that we would never eat.
The TCM diet is balanced with one third carbohydrates, one third protein and one third fat.In the 1960s and 1970s, a carbohydrate content of 60 percent was recommended in Western countries, and that with a reduced workload. TCM reached the West in the 80s and 90s, in the middle of the"grain age". Its balanced diet would not have gone down well there. Whole grains are not bad in themselves, but the recommended quantities were problematic. As a result, there were many people in the 80s who suffered from bloating. This was not common in the 70s.
So when TCM reached the West, it becamemore cereal-heavy, because the DGE prescribed 60 percent carbohydrates.In addition,animalproteinwas unpopular in the West. Eggs also had a bad reputation. People had a lack ofprotein and fat, but ate a lot of whole grains. No wonder there are so many more overweight people and fatty livers.
TCM isverygood at repairing and preventing. There is now a good body of research onlowcarb diets. We need to eat far fewer carbohydrates than the DGE specifies in order to have a balanced diet, and the best way to do this is with the knowledge of TCM: soupy and juicy cooked food, according to the seasons, so no tomato salad in winter, preferably unsweetened apple sauce instead. There are soups and stews with herbs and spices, nothing complicated at all. Thisdoes not mean that cereals should not be included at all. If you are slim and fit and don't have a fatty liver, you can also eat a potato or some rice as a side dish. But just as Supplement, not much and not three times a day.

Lots of rice,little obesity - How can that be?


I ask how it is that Chinese peoplemostly are slim,even though they eat a lot of riceeat a lot of rice? This is a frequently cited argument.

Danielaexplains that people in China pay attention to thetriplewarmer from an early age. If you look at the breakfast buffet in hotels that have a lot of Asian guests, you will see soups and porridges, because in China you don't start the day with a jam toast.When Daniela preparesthetriplewarmer for her clients, they lose weight and don't put on weight so easily. In China, attention is paid to balance, even if this is no longer the case in urban areas. Western food - such as pizza and burgers - is the trend there and as a result Chinese people are also getting fat. This is destroying thetriple warmer. Far away from urban areas - not necessarily only in the countryside - nutrition is stillvery important, unlike here. There, we don't eat 50 to 60 percent carbohydrates and nosweets, although we do eat pastries such as dumplings andside dishes. But there is always a one-third-third balance.


Cooking with shortcuts


I add that we also cook a lot of fresh food and shop at markets. Vegetables are also always included. Daniela said that it's important to eat regionally, seasonally and according to the time of year. My question is whether that meanssst,that you should cook for yourself and avoid ready-made products.

Daniela is not so strict about that. Cooking for yourself, if possible, is better, but she doesn't want to condemn all convenience products. She has a job herself and describes herself as a"lazycook", so she understands when time is short. However, there are also ways to buy better ready-made products, for example by buying a ready-made goulash from your butcher or a dish cooked by an Italian chef and served at home. bottled tomato sauce.There are also restaurants that pre-cook. Strictly speaking, these are also"ready-made products" that save time at home.
There are also good things in cans, as long as they are not ready-made dishes with additives. Canned tomatoes or strained tomatoes contain nothing else. There are no stabilizers or thickeners in them, but they save Daniela from having to blanch, peel and puree the tomatoes.
As a rule of thumb, Daniela says, the ingredients list should resemble"grandma's recipe". The tin should only contain food - such as tomatoes or chickpeas, but notchickpea curry. Some vegetable departments also have sliced, vacuum-packed vegetables. Daniela has a single household. If she wanted to make a vegetable soup, she would have several types of cut vegetables left over, whereas one such pack contains the right amount. Her advice is to shop with care.

I have heard that frozen food is not so good and ask Daniela what she thinks.

Daniela explains that frozen food loses its energy, even if the vitamins and minerals are still inside. TCM is interested in the functional circuit and asks: Is the dynamic still there? The energy? What cannot be measured is the yang. Taste and smell are not measurable. If you defrost fresh herbs, they don't smell and taste any more or much less than before. The yang unit is that you take the nutrients we want and transport them into the body via the intestines. Frozen food is energetically dead. The yang is missing to transport it into the body.
Imagine you cook something today and make double the portion. You then eat one portion today and freeze the other for next week. When you have eaten today, listen to yourself. How do I feel? Am I tired? Am I awake? Do I have gas or not? How am I feeling? If you do this againnext week aftereating, you're bound to notice something, even if it's just alittle fart. Frozen food is not directly harmful. TCM says that the cold passes into the food andyoucan't get itout. Not much happens, except that you don't absorb all the nutrients, andtiredness, bloating, lack of energy can be the result. be.
Daniela alsofreezes things here and there for emergencies, but not remedies. Herbs and spicesare then only visually appealing. Thyme no longer helps with coughs, parsley is only decorative.If you want the healing effect, you have to usefresh herbs.

I ask what the situation is with reheating the next day or the day after.

According to Daniela, that's not a problem. You can also pour the food into a screw-top jar while it's stillhot. As soon as it cools down, it's like preserving it andwill keep for a few days evenoutside the fridge.Daniela has already had clients who have defrosted their freezer and used it as a storage cupboard for preserving jars.
If someone is ill and needs to be nursed back to health, for example after chemotherapy, Daniela recommends avoiding frozen food. If you are healthy, there are no far-reaching consequences if you eat it here and there.

I would like to know how it is stored in the fridge.

Daniela says that's not a problem. Some things that would grow in winter anyway, like leeks, can withstand low temperatures. Some people say: "I can't just buy a few organic schnitzels from the farmer. I have to buy half a pig." Then it's okay to freeze it. In that case, however, the other food has to be fresh. Some people freeze everything - bread, vegetables, meat - and only eat defrosted food for the whole week. That would be a shame.
She had a client with an extreme liver-blood deficiency. She had to eat meat and also had a lot of meat in the freezer that came from an organic farmer. Daniela saidthat her family could eat it, but that she should prepare fresh meat for herself because frozen meat is no longer beneficial.

I like that a lot. I do the same thing in my practice. I always ask myself: who am I dealing with? Is it someone who is ill? Then the advice is different than for someone who is healthy. You can't say that often enough.

Daniela adds that a diet completely free of convenience foods, where everything is home-cooked, could lead to two thirds of people dropping out. She has to offer alternatives, and that's where the Prepared sugo from the Italianis far better than a mass-produced product.


Learn to cook step by step


I always say that if you value your health, you will find a way. Lack of time is often used as an excuse.

Daniela notes that many people don't even know how to cook these days; something that always horrifies her.Of course, learning takes time again. You also have to buy the equipment first. But egg dishes are easy and quick. Cooking soup is not difficult either. If you don't know how to cook, you first have to learn, and that requires a certain amount of time. But once they have got used to the good food they have bought from the restaurant or butcher, they will develop an interest in eating well. Then they soon start toenjoy cooking.
Daniela believes that if she insisted on fresh cooking, she would have less success. Instead, she helps clients to slowly approach egg dishes, soups etc. and build on them.

It's a matter of practice. I always say:"If you're feeling bad, then you're also prepared to take on one or two things."

She agrees with me and says that a lot happens when the pressure of suffering is there. You can just cook. It doesn't always have to be filet mignon.

I see it that way too. A starred menu is not necessary. You just have to start and gradually build up your repertoire. Start with two or three recipes, and once you've mastered them, learn a fourth and a fifth. That's how you build up.


Which foods are good for the liver?


Coming back to the liver, what can you look out for? Which foods are good for your liver? Daniela had already mentioned green vegetables.

Danielaexplains thatgreen - especially spinach and nettle - and redare good , as is meat.It doesn't have to be a lot. Especially for women with Liver-blood deficiency, andthis occurs frequently.Red meat,such asbeef,which isnot fullycooked, is particularlysuitable. Raw meat is very well tolerated, for example tartare or carpaccio.Egg yolk is particularly valuable for the liver.
Bitter substances are also important.Bitter substances bring energy down.Many people'senergy levels go up - for example when they have migraines orstress. That's why people really like coffee. Because bitter substances relieve the liver. We now also know that coffee supports the liver well.The most important grain is oats.The fiberbeta-glucan greatly degreases the liver. There are oat days, for example according to Dr.Noorden. These date back to the time beforemedication.They are also recommended fortype 2 diabetes. I have a YouTube postabout oat days.


Liver cleansing


You should also detoxify your liver from time to time. Many people argue that this is not necessary because we have our detoxification organs. This is true,but they are designed to deal with hunter-gatherer waste, notlarge quantities of chemicals from cosmetics, detergents, environmentaltoxins, air pollution, etc. We need to help the bodyget rid of these toxins from time to time.After all, they are not in the liver, kidneys, skin stored.In some cases you can seethem coming out through the skin. They are stored in fatty tissue. If some people fail to lose weight at all: detoxify. Fatty tissue stores toxins. The body does not poison itself and hold on to it, it does not release the toxin stores easily. You have to provide support.

My question is how to detoxify the liver.tpoisoned.

Daniela says,"Theclassic way,for example in spring with a fasting cure andnettle tea." She explained that you don't just use a feather duster for spring cleaning, but also cleaning cloths and possibly a steam cleaner, depending onthe tasks at hand. Everydetoxificationmeasure hasa different effectin a different way.Nettle tea is afeather duster, but it's better togo through with thefeather duster every now and thenthan never clean.

I would like to know whether this should be approached individually, depending on what symptoms you have.

Daniela agrees with me.If someone hasa migraine with aura and visual disturbances every 3rd day, the liver is definitelysuffering. You have totake differentmeasures (not during, but preventively, before the migraine) than someone who is fit and wants to do something good for their liver from time to time.

I ask Daniela about her recently published book on the liver.

It'scalled: "How to make my liver slim again.WithMediterranean Low-Carb dietto get rid of fatty liver with pleasure." She wrote it with co-author ChristinaBiechl. The book containsvarious ways to getrid of afatty liver.

I would like to know whether it is also for other liver problems for example menstrual problems, or skin problems.

Daniela says yes. It's very good for the liver if you"clean" it a little every now andthen. Whether it's a fatty liver, which is verycommon, or whether it's"just " a liver-blood deficiency. It's a very good start.

I am often asked about liver cleansing andaskwhether thisaboutin the book.

She explains thatthe bookwould have been too thickif it had written everything about the liver, so it only contains a little about liver cleansing.And points out thatthe liver is the only organ that cannot be replaced by a machine. This is because it has over 500 functions.For the kidneys, there is dialysis.There is the heart-lung machine. But if the liver is broken, it is broken.Since it hasnopain receptors, youdon't notice it.That's why you should always look after your liver as a precautionary measure and keep her fit before she complains, because then it's too late.

It was a very interesting conversation. As with all my guests, I could go on talking to Daniela for hours. I ask how to find Daniela if you want to work with her.

Daniela says that she offersnutritional advice via a learning platform.This can be ketogenicnutrition, nutrition for auto-immune diseases, or 14 days of intensiveliver fasting according to Dr.Worm, 14 days.Daniela uses a learning platformso that peoplecan acquirecomprehensive knowledge before changing their diet.This is followed by a personal consultation via Zoom, during which only fine adjustmentsneed to be made.Daniela hasalsoset up aYouTube channelon which she talks about topics such as the liver, TCM or the aforementioned oat days and much more.

Lastly, I ask Daniela what else she would like to pass on to her listeners.

Daniela advises us to pay attention to ourliver. It is our mood barometer.If we are alwaysgrumpy,the liver demands attention.The best medicine is to laugh heartily, preferably until the tears come.

The conversation was veryssgreat funss made. I say goodbye to Daniela and look forward to the next time.


The links to the episode are:
Daniela Pfeifer's website:www.daniela-pfeifer.at
Low-Carb Goodies (Daniela's Facebook page):https://www.facebook.com/LowCarbGoodies

Daniela's YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/c/DanielaPfeifer-LowCarbGoodies
Daniela's book:"So wird meine Leber wieder schlank" (So wird meine Leber wieder schlank" (So wird meine Leber wieder schlank ) (with a Mediterraneanlow-carb diet to get rid of fatty liver with pleasure) together with Christina Biechl:
https://amzn.to/2ZYtsfM

Daniela's Instagram profile: https://www.instagram.com/lowcarbgoodies/

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